Wednesday, February 9, 2011

Thoughts on Vyros after a few games

After doing a bit of a writeup on Vyros, I figured I'd put in some more test games. I've played a handful of games (one 50, the others 35) with this list:

10 Invictors w/ Officer, Standard
p/e Eiryss (depending on whether I know a Hordes/WM matchup is coming up)

Game 1: 50pts vs eStryker
I ran a slightly different list; in lieu of the Magister and Scyir there were a pair of MHAs; in lieu of a Phoenix there was a Manticore, and to make up the points I added another Manticore, a unit of Stormfall Archers, and probably one other solo.

Stryker hada heap of Stormknights (both varieties), Ol' Rowdy, a Stormclad, and a junior warcaster with a hunter.

He won the roll to go first, and with Advance move and a run, I had a bunch of ARM20 storm-things halfway across the board. (ARM15 + 3 for arcane shield + 2 for Deflection). I promptly wished for epic Eiryss as a means to knock 'em down to ARM17. As it was, Invictors advanced, mini-feated, and took down a couple of those guys, but not nearly enough. Manticores threw up covering fire, but it didn't do a lot since there was the good ol' Piper in the back ready to pass out pathfinder to counter the terrain.

The bright side? A Mage Hunter Assassin one-shotted the hunter; it was glorious. Then it died horribly, but it was a 2pt solo for a 6pt long-range sniper, so I'm down with that.

Past that, I botched the scenario and didn't get enough into the middle. One Manticore got in (another could have, but I botched a trample angle) and Striker promptly rolled +15 Strength on his overcharge roll. Myrmidons don't last long when the other guy rolls 2d6+13 base for damage, just sayin'.

Lessons Learned:
-2 Heavies is probably the limit with Vyros. A Griffin, points permitting, might be ok with the Invictors.
-Covering Fire helps SOME with the focus efficiency, but manticores are gonna get hungry when you go into melee.
-PAY ATTENTION TO THE SCENARIO. Not Vyros-related, but still.

Game 2: 35pts vs Legion
Opponent's Army
-2x Shredder
2 Strider Deathstalkers

We rolled mosh pit (again) and I decided to not screw it up this time. Given the small model count, I figured my feat would be a bit 'eh'. Turn one here was mobility + Inviolable Resolve + Hallowed Avenger on the Phoenix. Focus to discordia (via arcanist) for imprint, and blammo! ARM21 vs ranged Invictors!

His turn one, he moved into position. and promptly shot down three Invictors with his lovely little deathstalkers. Screw you, Sniper.

Second turn? Advance, mobility, focus to Discordia, feat on Vyros. the Invictors advance and pop their mini-feat. They manage to rip up both Shredders and, importantly, pop the Shepherd. Eiyrss attempts to KO a Strider by walking into range and firing, only to pull a '3' on the dice. My dice do this for a bit, but since I got the Shepherd, I'm not caring too much. The Magister also manages a crit knockdown on the scythean after shoving it 3 inches back, so I'm down with that. The Phoenix kicks a boosted shot into the Carnivean, and knocks a chunk off.

...I promptly lose the Phoenix to a pissed-off Carnivean. Typhon munches on Eiryss, and the Scythean meanders back into position after forcing to stand up. However, my opponent has a HEAP of fury in the field. A couple more Dawnguard go away, thanks to the sniper. However, ARM21 dawnguard (thanks to discordia) discourage the sprays that I'm expecting in a list like this.

And here? It gets messy. I tie up the Scythean with a combo-smite, and then engage the Carnivean as best I can. Discordia charges Typhon and does some damage (and also engages the Deathstalker). I have Vyros with a couple focus, and think to myself "Ok, Lylyth's just behind Typhon; time to go for broke and try to get her. May not have another turn."

So, I charge Lylyth, miss...then realize Typhon's in flank range. Vyros crushes Typhon's face something bad, AND engages Lylyth.

His Carnivean frenzies and KOs a trooper something fierce, a shredder overloads and whiffs on another shredder. Lylyth dodges the free strike to move across the mosh pit, and the Scythean eats that pesky little Magister. Hey, the 2pt bugger tied up a 9pt heavy for a couple turns; it's a good price for me to pay.

Discordia gets Concentrated Power and has a word with the Carnivean; this word is DIE! Vyros eyes the Scythean, thinks a moment, then pops a Strangehold on the thing (I'd dropped Inviolable Resolve because by now, I had about 2-3 Invictors left, and one was the standard bearer. Some losses due to meandering away from the scythean and death via free strikes. Hey, same thing happed to his Deathstalker with Discordia).

So, he's got a scythean with nothing in melee reach and only a move OR action next turn.

Vyros streaks across the field and finishes off the Scythean after Discordia works it over, and engages Lylyth again. Lylyth tries to back away, gets one-shotted in a free strike.

Lessons Learned
-Other guy had WAY too much fury for pLylyth, and not enough fury management
-Vyros' feat has issues with smaller model-count lists (obviously)
-ARM21 vs ranged dawnguard shut down a lot of strategies
-Vyros is SICK in melee, if you do get to use him. MAT10, PS14+3d6 = WHEEE! Seriously, it's great fun.
-in a pinch, Invictors can do ok damage, but they are CRAP without flank vs. hard targets, like a Carnivean.

Round 3: Trollbloods
-Slag Troll
5x Trolls with the d3 shots each
Min Pygmy Snipers
Min Scouts

Scenario: 10" circles on either side of the middle

My comrade decided to grab his Trollbloods in lieu of his Khador. He ended up building a Gunnbjorn tier list, which was interesting. Those guys with multiple wounds and d3 POW13s on an aim are a bit worrisome.

Basically, in this game he opted not to do a lot of advancing, and that cost him. On the other hand, ARM20 warjacks and ARM21 infantry (combined with immunity to blasts) is pretty rough on a shooty list. Long story short: all he had that advanced were the scouts. The Scyir ran off to get one objective; the Invictors and Discordia cleared the scouts off the other.

Lessons Learned
-Discordia (especially if it can cover most of your guys) and Inviolable Resolve are sick against ranged armies.
-Invictors are tidy for putting down multiple infantry, OR doing a massed CRA into hard targets. Nothing like a POW20 to the face...
-With a Reach jack alive, the invictors are bloody frightening

Round 4: eMadrak Trolls
-Dire Troll Mauler
Full unit of Kriel Warriors + Caber throws + UA
Full unit of Champions

Ok, this was a little more frightening. This was Break the Line against a crap-ton of melee troops and threat, and nil shooting. On the bright side, this freed up Discordia for more maneuvering.

Basically, he had beasts/Madrak in the middle, champs + hero on one flank, and warriors on the other. That's a LOT of medium bases and a lotta pain waiting to happen.

After he advanced, I moved up, mini-feated, popped feat, and shot up a bunch of Kriel Warriors. Terrain slowed his army a bit, and at least kept the champs from advancing too fast on a flank. i KO about half of the warriors, but not enough to cause a morale check. The Phoenix puts a dent in the Axer.

Then...the charge. Discordia eats three Kriel Warrior charges (AND Madrak's little 'get an extra d6 on damage rolls and lose some DEF and/or ARM) but remains standing. The phoenix eats a charge from the Axer, and a few troopers go down at the end of it.

The next turn, the Phoenix beats down the Axer and puts some damage on the Mauler. Flanking Invictors rip it apart and take down some guys, but it's not enough to pull out a scenario win for me.

I have no line of sight to Madrak (not with enough firepower, anyway...) and there's a unit of Champions bearing down on a flank. Honestly, I was a bit intimidated by all the bloody wounds (ARM18, weaponmasters, 8 wounds each...yeah, it's like a squad of killy solos.) and their firepower. He wipes out my guys in one flank, pulls Kriel warriors back, and his caster claims the other one on his side.

Lessons Learned
-I hate high-ARM, multi-wound infantry that kill you in melee
-Trolls and medim basers make it easier to line up shots
-Tough is annoying for Vyros' feat
-Medium bases cut out tramples (shock, I know) which cuts down options for the feat
-Focus on scenario

I think Vyros performs decently. His feat is no game-winner, but can get you a few extra focus for your 'jacks on a messy turn. It'll let vyros upkeep Inviolable Resolve, throw Mobility up, and maybe even get off a Stranglehold (which is very nice WHEN it happens, mind you...)

I do believe if you're going to run invictors, you need to commit to at least one reach warjack. The Phoenix is a solid choice here, and the arc ode may get some use. Mostly, though, the flank is solid. The Griffin is a backup choice here, points permitting.

If you're lighter on numbers (or like screwing with the other guy) a Magister is wonderful. Throwing enemy heavies back a few inches in this game can be sick for them to deal with. Considering that there's not always enough heavy-duty firepower to go around (well, with invictors; they're great for thinning enemy ranks) you'll want that to delay enemy plans, or for scenario purposes.

The Scyir...not so bad, as he can provide you with a nice homing missle to fire through your Dawnguard. Hitting something at POW12+4d6 and MAT10 on the charge is bloody nice, and being able to get through your Dawnguard is nice, too. I'm not sure I'd marshal to him (you might as well to it to the Dawnguard themselves) but he's also workable enough as a scenario grabber.

As we all knew, the Soulless is situational. The situation didn't arise, and another arcanist would've been nice.

Arcanists are nice. Full stop, end of story. They only become useless when you lose all your myrmidons.

Discordia + Invictors + Inviolable Resolve makes some players cry, hard, if they don't have access to fire or corrosion or snipers.

I think you can run Vyros with Sentinels just fine as well, but you'll need to take something for riot control, as you'll have less ability to thin out the hordes at range. I suspect that Stormfall Archers wouldn't be out of place for such a task.

1 comment:

Sincerely said...

wsup reptar :D

I personally find vyros excruciatingly hard to maximize

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